Concerns about "Flames of Rome"
Reasons for using Flames of Rome
References to specific sections that might want to be edited, skipped
I thought I'd better add my viewpoint lest anyone think everyone who has read the book is unanimously against using it.
My son will be 14 in October. I have found, as the book has stewed in my mind, that it was very effective in relating the stage upon which Christianity entered. What a scary, difficult time--and I know in other places in the East it was just as difficult or worse--and yet Christianity grew at an amazing rate. I think the overall effect of the book on my son will be a sober reminder of what others have suffered for the name of Christ. I think it will bring "alive" many of the passages in Peter, as well as Paul's prison epistles and possibly Hebrews 10 and 11 (many scholars believe Aquilla could have been Hebrew's author--that tends to make ch 11 seem even more poignant in light of the book). I do wish the book let us "know" the Christian characters better--I think it would have been more triumphant had it done so. However, kids, atleast American kids, have no concept of suffering or can't relate in anyway to what Christ said, "marvel not when men hate you because of me". They've been so sheltered and blessed here when asking a group of them for prayer requests, I find I'm inundated with requests for pets. It has struck me that kids lives are so free from worry that a sick pet is the hardest reality they face. Are any of us prepared for hardship in the name of Christ? I often wonder how we will do when it comes, for I do believe it will.
I chose to do Flames of Rome with her for exactly the reasons Dana mentioned. Kids today are so sheltered and so engrossed in "me" that I felt she needed an eye-opener. It was a hard, emotional read for her. I read with her and I made sure that I always stayed 3-4 chapters ahead so I could forewarn her of anything disturbing. I don't regret it. Some of our absolute best discussions that year came from that book. She had never really understood before what the early Christians went through. I saw her mature in her understanding of what Christ did for us on the cross. It was a great read for us!
"Someone told me to replace Flames of Rome with something called Quo Vadis. It supposed to be a great book about Roman times." [This used to be in SL's year 8.]
"You might also take a look at Francine Rivers' "Mark of the Lion" series set in Rome. She still refers to the sicknesses of Roman society, but doesn't describe them as graphically. The first volume is "A Voice in the Wind
Can we justify the value of 'questionable' books - educational value and value for our Christian walk?
[discussion from the forums in 2004]
From Amy:
First, my understanding is that the two books you mention (*Flames and *Fallen) are the best that we have found so far. Sort of like SOTW--we're not thrilled, but it is the best we've seen. As always, if we find something better, we'll put it in. I know other people periodically bring up alternatives (*Mark of the Lion being a big one for *Flames), and we do pursue the alternatives, but none, so far as we can tell, are even EQUAL, let alone BETTER. In *Flames, particularly, the amount of solid historical information surrounding a captivating plot is really, really good.
Second, I think the cultural literacy aspect is a big consideration. Right now with the war in Iraq, I hear all the time, "It's just another Vietnam." Whether you agree with that or not, you need to understand a little bit about Vietnam in order to form your own opinion. I know my Mom really wants us to have cultural literacy. I've even seen in the comics references to ancient Rome, so without a foundation, even the comics would not make sense.
Third, the historical parallels between those two periods and today are important to understand. *Flames is, at times, incredibly sex driven--more so than all of us would prefer, I think. And yet, our culture is nasty, nasty, too. (And living in Boulder right now, with all the "scandal" at CU, the broken sexuality there is no more than all over sororities and fraternities across the nation.) We don't often see it (thank you, Lord!), but it is there. I think if we, as parents, can talk to our children about these harder topics, it will be a little less shocking when they encounter it in real life.
And, I guess, for me, vulgarity does not bother me as much as some. At this point, I can hardly go on a walk in our neighborhood without hearing some bad word or other. When I was in ps for hs, I calculated once that during passing periods I would hear the F-word maybe 6 times a minute. Ugh! But, again, part of life.
From Brian, Kelly's son:
Hello, this is Kelly's 17 y/o middle son, Brian. My mom asked me to write a response to this seeing as how I just finished reading Fallen Angels for my fourth time in as many months.
After reading the other replies, I agree with Mrs. Amy. The reason I have read Fallen Angels so many times is that I like war stories a lot, but most books that I find, make war look all pretty. While I was reading Fallen Angels, I could really see what war is about, the constant fear of the soldiers, the horrible conditions, and the training that helps to supercede all of these problems. If people are complaining about violence then they need to wake up and smell the roses. War is violent by its very nature and definition! If we can't handle the violence, then we can't handle any history! There have been so many wars that all of them aren't even recorded. I live near New Orleans, LA. There are at least two murders every day in that city, all of which didn't have to happen, but they did and I can learn from them by staying out of the situations in which they occurred. We can learn the same thing from wars if we would actually try. If we can let God into our society and do his work, we won't be in any situations for war after a while.
The language is also a pretty stupid thing to complain about. I work at Chick-Fil-A, which is a Christian-owned and operated franchise, yet I hear more cuss words in one day at work than most would probably believe! I'm not trying to offend anyone, but if a homeschooled kid is so sheltered that they can't stand to read about violence and language, then they will go crazy the second that they get a job and go out into the real world!! Unfortunately, today's America is full of violence, foul mouths, and sex. I don't like it, but I can't just shut out everything--Jesus told us to be in the world but not of it--so I have to accept it and do all I can to change it for the future. I can't do that if I get all uppity and offended everytime someone tells me to "F off", which has happened many times, trust me!!
Core 9 was put together, from my understanding, to teach us about the 20th century. Some of the biggest events in the 20th century were the wars! Fallen Angels really helps to make history come alive to me, while still staying interesting, and I think that to get rid of the book, would get rid of a great way to understand what our current Angel Warriors are going through right now in Iraq!
From John & Sarita:
"Do you know how many books there are on Vietnam? In the 20 or 30 years since the war, there have been hardly any books written on the subject . . . because there was so much shame! We didn't conquer any evil or rescue any captives. . . ." (Compare the output of books on Vietnam to those about World War II!) Sarita said she is aware of maybe two books for high schoolers. "What is wonderful about FALLEN ANGELS is the reality of the book: the sheer boredom of regular camp life on the one hand, and the sheer terror of fighting an unseen enemy on the other."
