Questionable content in Core 300? [6.14.06]

Q: What books should the parent pre-read?

A: Every parent must decide for themself where their 'line' is, but some books that are mentioned by those who have used Core 300 include For Whom the Bell Tolls, Fallen Angels (strong warnings on that one - profanity and violence), One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich (profanity and violence), Heart of Darkness (looks at the corruption of humanity), Brave New World (sexual content). This is not intended to be an exhaustive list of books an individual may feel should be pre-read; other users on the High School forums may have other suggestions.

Q:Besides pre-reading the book, what can a parent do to be sure the content is appropriate for their child?

A:Reading the notes in the IG would be very helpful, as well as noting any warnings in the catalog.

Q: Do you think some of the books like Fallen Angels in Core 300 are inappropriate for a 10th grader? Should I use them? Do they have any value? (or other questions like this).

A: We read this book. This book is like many others in this level, it has questionable content. I think every family has to make their own judgement calls regarding any of the the books our children read.

For myself, I pre-read every book I feel uncertain about because of concerns about content. Having said that, I let my son read all the books in Core 300. I felt since I had pre-read them we could discuss the book and talk about why we think it is considered important literature, why it would be included, what deeper truths it pointed us to, etc.

Truthfully, I am not sure all the books are necessary for a well rounded education, and a couple had truly vulgar language--but there were things of value in all of them, and also through all of them we could see how much of the world views thing and why we all need a saviour.

I am not sure if this helps. I would say, read the notes and if you are not sure, read the book. No one can really make decisions for your family.

7.11.08 https://www.sonlight-forums.com/showthread.php?t=158380

Just finished Fallen Angels (core 300)

You should know ahead of time that I don't like war flicks or stories...that said, I couldn't put this book down. Two thumbs up for realism and that you are there feeling. It evoked an incredible amount of sympathy inside of me for veterans, beyond what I had to begin with. It stayed with me, and I wished there was more when it was over. Excellent writing, and the author has an incredible ability to make you feel like time is moving fast or slow and that you are moving along with it at the same rate. I will be letting my ds read this book. I think it has significant value.

I chose to preread this book because of the content warnings in the catalogue. If you have a child who is sensitive to language, this is a book you might want to review yourself. The language is typical of young men in a war zone...lots of language laced with the typical 4 letter words, including liberal use of the one that starts with F. Also, there are sentences here and there in dialogue of men teasing one another about women (but not graphically, more like one-liners meant to get a laugh), and one or two male concerns about not wanting to die a virgin. That said, there were zero events about visiting prostitutes (I was much relieved) and nothing graphic, sexually.

The other thing to be aware of is that students who are just very sensitive in general may have a hard time with this book. I didn't know that the Vietcong did things like appear to be a mother with two kids, hand one of the kids to an American soldier to be nice and then detonate the bombs attached to the child. (I could hardly believe it myself) In the book, the soldiers weren't expecting this either, and were affected by the incident deeply. The experience of being in battle is graphic, and also, the author successfully shows how the mind plays tricks to help men cope with what they are experiencing, but also makes them feel like they are going crazy.

An amazing book. One I won't soon forget.

8.1.05 I finished this book [Fallen Angels] and decided to have my now 16 yr old son read it. I think if he was in 9th grade, he would be too young, but as a junior I think it is OK. Just to let you know, I have a very low tolerance for profanity of any kind. I do not like the word 'sucks' or 'freakin'' either--really don't like it at all. We say bottom instead of butt, you get the idea.

This book has the "f" word in it about 20-30 times. In all but one circumstance it could be interchanged with the work 'heck" which is what I trained my mind to read it as. It also had a bit of lesser profanity, but it was not saturated with it or anything. You could read many pages,and maybe a chapter or so without any profanity at all.

It had some graphic war violence descriptions, but not tons. There was a lot of comraderie, feeling of being scared, wondering what the war was about, why are we fighting...that kind of thing. Made war seem boring at times, pointless at times and terrifying at others.

It was very interesting and really drew me in, I wanted to find out what happened. My husband had a draft number and was within about 20 numbers or so of it being called when the war was over. I remember that day--we were going together, and the war was over and he didn't have to go. Lots of feelings of relief. The guys in the war were 17, 18, 19 years old, mere babies used as cannon fodder in many circumstances. I guess if they could fight it, the least I can do, is have my son understand it.

Profanity, yes--but it was not overpowering. I think it seemed like if fit--I am sure the guys talked way worse than that. There is some reference to wishing they weren't virgins and that they could make it with a foreign woman. Nothing graphic, and they are just talking. Some bathroom talk--mostly 'cause they have some sort of bug or something and there was lots of running for the facilities.

All in all, a really good book, but not for a younger teen. That is my impression, FWIW.

Can we justify the value of 'questionable' books - educational value and value for our Christian walk?

[discussion from the forums in 2004]

From Amy:

First, my understanding is that the two books you mention (*Flames and *Fallen) are the best that we have found so far. Sort of like SOTW--we're not thrilled, but it is the best we've seen. As always, if we find something better, we'll put it in. I know other people periodically bring up alternatives (*Mark of the Lion being a big one for *Flames), and we do pursue the alternatives, but none, so far as we can tell, are even EQUAL, let alone BETTER. In *Flames, particularly, the amount of solid historical information surrounding a captivating plot is really, really good.
Second, I think the cultural literacy aspect is a big consideration. Right now with the war in Iraq, I hear all the time, "It's just another Vietnam." Whether you agree with that or not, you need to understand a little bit about Vietnam in order to form your own opinion. I know my Mom really wants us to have cultural literacy. I've even seen in the comics references to ancient Rome, so without a foundation, even the comics would not make sense.
Third, the historical parallels between those two periods and today are important to understand. *Flames is, at times, incredibly sex driven--more so than all of us would prefer, I think. And yet, our culture is nasty, nasty, too. (And living in Boulder right now, with all the "scandal" at CU, the broken sexuality there is no more than all over sororities and fraternities across the nation.) We don't often see it (thank you, Lord!), but it is there. I think if we, as parents, can talk to our children about these harder topics, it will be a little less shocking when they encounter it in real life.
And, I guess, for me, vulgarity does not bother me as much as some. At this point, I can hardly go on a walk in our neighborhood without hearing some bad word or other. When I was in ps for hs, I calculated once that during passing periods I would hear the F-word maybe 6 times a minute. Ugh! But, again, part of life.

From Brian, Kelly's son:

Hello, this is Kelly's 17 y/o middle son, Brian. My mom asked me to write a response to this seeing as how I just finished reading Fallen Angels for my fourth time in as many months.
After reading the other replies, I agree with Mrs. Amy. The reason I have read Fallen Angels so many times is that I like war stories a lot, but most books that I find, make war look all pretty. While I was reading Fallen Angels, I could really see what war is about, the constant fear of the soldiers, the horrible conditions, and the training that helps to supercede all of these problems. If people are complaining about violence then they need to wake up and smell the roses. War is violent by its very nature and definition! If we can't handle the violence, then we can't handle any history! There have been so many wars that all of them aren't even recorded. I live near New Orleans, LA. There are at least two murders every day in that city, all of which didn't have to happen, but they did and I can learn from them by staying out of the situations in which they occurred. We can learn the same thing from wars if we would actually try. If we can let God into our society and do his work, we won't be in any situations for war after a while.
The language is also a pretty stupid thing to complain about. I work at Chick-Fil-A, which is a Christian-owned and operated franchise, yet I hear more cuss words in one day at work than most would probably believe! I'm not trying to offend anyone, but if a homeschooled kid is so sheltered that they can't stand to read about violence and language, then they will go crazy the second that they get a job and go out into the real world!! Unfortunately, today's America is full of violence, foul mouths, and sex. I don't like it, but I can't just shut out everything--Jesus told us to be in the world but not of it--so I have to accept it and do all I can to change it for the future. I can't do that if I get all uppity and offended everytime someone tells me to "F off", which has happened many times, trust me!!
Core 9 was put together, from my understanding, to teach us about the 20th century. Some of the biggest events in the 20th century were the wars! Fallen Angels really helps to make history come alive to me, while still staying interesting, and I think that to get rid of the book, would get rid of a great way to understand what our current Angel Warriors are going through right now in Iraq!

From John & Sarita:

"Do you know how many books there are on Vietnam? In the 20 or 30 years since the war, there have been hardly any books written on the subject . . . because there was so much shame! We didn't conquer any evil or rescue any captives. . . ." (Compare the output of books on Vietnam to those about World War II!) Sarita said she is aware of maybe two books for high schoolers. "What is wonderful about FALLEN ANGELS is the reality of the book: the sheer boredom of regular camp life on the one hand, and the sheer terror of fighting an unseen enemy on the other."

One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich - raw language warning [5.24.06]

One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich (Core 300 Literature title) contains quite a lot of raw language, we do not provide a warning in the catalog. [This has been sent for potential correction in next year's catalog - now provided to you as product info.]